Correspondence from Micro Bill Systems' solicitors

[Andy M]

I would like to echo the comments made by ForumFriend.

If you have legal concerns regarding any posts made on this board, then I would request that you send them to me (site and domain owner) rather than alluding to the issue in postings such as these.

I will be happy to provide my postal address for such matters. If you require this, please send me a private message via this forum.

I have previously removed information where it has been deemed to be illegal, but will only do so when this is addressed to me through the proper legal channels, via your solicitors.

I reiterate that this forum is NOT here for your benefit. In the interests of free speech, we have allowed you access to the forum on the understanding that you do not seek to take issue with every person who has a grievance against the company you represent.

Posting comments such as "It is fact of all businesses, that when a customer does not get the answer they want, the business is always deemed as wrong" directly after an obviously very upset poster (I refuse to use the word "customer") merely adds fuel to the fire, and I would ask you NOT to do so in future.

Failure to adhere to this may result in your posts being removed, access rights restricted, or your membership being revoked. I felt it right to allow you access to these forums in order that you could answer questions put to you. Please use the allotted areas of the forum for this task alone.

[Abusebyit]

We would like to point out, that in our earlier postings, we requested that people use these forums to post real queries and problems that they experience in a bid to assist people who have genuine concerns.

Whilst we decline to comment on the threatening nature of the post, we would respectfully request that the moderators consider the message that this sends out to the people who have genuine issues.

It is fact of all businesses, that when a customer does not get the answer they want, the business is always deemed as wrong.  I have never been, or tried to be a customer of MBS Platte, they are a bunch of cyber terrorists who invade people's pcs just like a traditional criminal who demands money with menaces.

Unfortunately there will always be users who have grievences, We can catagorically state that no download of our software takes place in any other way than stated previously.  Rubbish, I know that to be a lie.  I am infected and have NOT gone through their processes.

We read all the postings on all the forums and independantly of our claims, can confirm the software installation process has been verified. Please bear in mind, when reading previous posts and claims, that the installation software requires a pin number to be entered by the user, prior to the completion of the installation.  Rubbish, I do not have a pin number.

We are not a scam company and engage with all our customers as fully as possible. We urge people to read posts on all forums to be fully informed.  Yes you are.

To the Moderator-
We welcome the recent post by this forum to place the contact information of the OFT and trading standards, Please also add our own contact information to this post to ensure your readers have the opportunity to discuss any issues with us directly... and receive another virus, no chance.

Please continue to post constructive comments and we will address as many issues as possible. 

Platte Media

What a ridiculous situation, the criminals claiming respectability.

Platte Media's lawyers have threatened legal action if certain comments made by members of this forum are not removed. They believe that they are "references that could incite violence". This is a matter of differing opinion, naturally, but we have complied to protect the forum as it stands. Presumably, they have no problem with some of the other statements (see above paragraph, for example) or they would have asked for their removal also. I wonder what that says? Well, you can work that out, and if you publish it here, maybe we'll get another letter from Platte Media's solicitors!

[ForumFriend]

Abusebyit:  I am assuming that by your use of the phrase referring to collars being felt that you refer to legitimate legal action involving officers of the law.  If, however, you are implying anything else, can I again remind you that this forum neither endorses nor will permit threats to be made. 

We understand your anger, but please also be sure to observe the forum's rule that:
 
"the following types of post will be deleted, and persistent abuse will see your account terminated:
 -abusive language or threats against any forum member or other person, regardless of who they are."

We know you are angry, but please don't overstep the mark on the forum.  Thank you.

[Public Relations - Platte]

With reference to the request by jonlewis5, a full reply has been given on the linked forum

Platte Public Relations

[Andy M]

In order for this forum to be useful to everyone, we need to maintain certain standards on both sides.

Abusebyit, please do not take our comments as an endorsement of what Platte or MBS are doing. We're merely requesting that users try to moderate their own feelings of resentment and anger into constructive posts that do not imply or promote personal attack on anyone associated with the companies.

We're aware that previous posters have also made what could be considered veiled threats, so please do not think that we are singling you out. We totally understand your anger, and if you need to vent privately then feel free to message one of the moderators (I haven't asked them but I hope that would be OK)

Having these feelings isn't wrong, but we need to be careful about what gets said on public forums, particularly on the Internet where everyone can read it and it's near impossible to retract at a later date. This will give us all more opportunity to rationally debate and have influence over how companies like Platte use these methods of billing in the future.
 
Please do continue to contribute, and we'll help you practically all that we can. Hang in there!

[Public Relations - Platte]

This posting has been removed - We would remind Platte/MBS that duplicate postings are not welcome.

[jonlewi5]

I am aware of how IP addressing and such works, and am also aware of what records are kept etc etc, but that wasnt the point of my question, the point is HOW do you track users?? if a user's IP is constantly changing how do you track them? Does your software "call home" and repor tthat users IP??

We would warn users from using scripts and programs posted on forums or over the internet as some of these (in our recent experience) have shown to include nagware and other undesirable adware advertising functions

ill bite my tongue 

------------------------------------------

i also have a question for you, why does your IP take me to the MBS website when you have said YOURSELF that you are NOT MBS??

[Public Relations - Platte]

In Response to Jonlewi5

During the installation process, a unique fingerprint is created of the users computer (this fingerprint is generated by the use of a number of hardware and software components on the users pc and similar to that used by Microsoft). In the millions of records we hold, there has been no duplicates and the process was reviewed by the Guardian independantly.

When the user attempts to access the website, the fingerprint is sent from the computer to the website for authentication. Obviously as the user is online, they have an assigned IP address for that session. We record the access from the PC and the IP address at the same time.

The software does not call home. The IP address is only recorded when the user installs the software and when they access the site. These records can be viewed openly from the users account pages.

With regard the MBS question. Platte bought MBS and including all infrastructure and equipment. That is why the IP addressing still relates to MBS in the short term.

Platte Public Relations

[mjerry]

  dear sir

 thank you for the explanation of how do platte record the ip adress of the people who may joined the site willingly or un willingly through a third party soft ware. i am still believing that platt argument for the unique method of subscribtion is not right as putting the blame on the parents or the owner of the computer that he is not keeping an eye on whom and how is the computer is used. what will be the answer of platte to the fact if the computer is only used by the owner and particularly during the time they say that the site was entered.
what platte will comment on the fact that these seven screen they claimed appear and you have to go through them to complete registration, that did not happen at least in my case and, i am sure and have no doubt that it did happen with others too, i would like to know whether platte have changed the way registration with the site getfilmnow or any of the other site they acquired from MBS, and make it more secure and difficult for under aged to join easily as it was before. this method of registration is not right
it is like a 7 year old goes to the supermarket and bays a bottle of alcohol claiming that he is over 18 years of age, then the supermarket will turn and say it is the responsibility of the guardians to watch what their children are doing.
as i mentioned in earlier correspondents that this so called innovative and unique way of registration with platte is completly untrue and unsafe if we believe that computer hacker hacked into USA national security
 system and used information during the 9/11, so what about a system that dependent on IP and e-mail address for registration as a way of identifying the computer used, these can easily be obtained by any hacker and used by them to register for platte site in my opinion.
platte site or shall i say getfilmnow site should be using an alternate and secure method of registration     
to grantee at least for them selves that they have a sure method of being paid for the service they provide by those who genuinely asked for it, rather than trying to justify a system which is not used by any site what ever the site deals with i came across it, probably because it is one used in stone ages of computer and resurrected by platte from dead. as it is not possible to 100% to prevent fraud but at least we should do our best to achieve that goal, instead i can see platte may be others also will be encouraged to follow them once a black hole being discovered in the law which will increase their revenues.
thanks
mjerry
           

[jonlewi5]

In Response to Jonlewi5

During the installation process, a unique fingerprint is created of the users computer (this fingerprint is generated by the use of a number of hardware and software components on the users pc and similar to that used by Microsoft). In the millions of records we hold, there has been no duplicates and the process was reviewed by the Guardian independantly.

When the user attempts to access the website, the fingerprint is sent from the computer to the website for authentication. Obviously as the user is online, they have an assigned IP address for that session. We record the access from the PC and the IP address at the same time.

The software does not call home. The IP address is only recorded when the user installs the software and when they access the site. These records can be viewed openly from the users account pages.

With regard the MBS question. Platte bought MBS and including all infrastructure and equipment. That is why the IP addressing still relates to MBS in the short term.

Platte Public Relations

but why use IP's??
i can assure you that even if i had a static IP i could mask my pc through a series of proxys, and this isnt difficult even for the most basic of pc users, see here : http://www.torproject.org/

i dont understand why you guys are so determind to stick with this method, even your hardware/software fingerprinting, thats easy to get by, ever heard of virtualization? thats how i researched both yours and MBS's software.

[Andy M]

Jon,

Not that I agree it's the best method, but (without wanting to sound condescending in any way) the majority of computer users have neither the ability nor the inclination to get involved in virtualisation and such — they just want a computer that works. That's why these nagging pop-ups are so damaging — they render the computer useless for periods of time, which can be a really worrying thing for a novice user.

The likes of you and I are definitely in the minority, Jon!

[jonlewi5]

Jon,

Not that I agree it's the best method, but (without wanting to sound condescending in any way) the majority of computer users have neither the ability nor the inclination to get involved in virtualisation and such — they just want a computer that works. That's why these nagging pop-ups are so damaging — they render the computer useless for periods of time, which can be a really worrying thing for a novice user.

The likes of you and I are definitely in the minority, Jon!

ye i see what your saying, i do sometimes forget that lol

the main reason i mentiond that is as a point to say that this fingerprinting cant be 100%, i have been involved in the development of an application which used the same sort of method of fingerprinting to generate an individual serial number for the app, the point i was making about virtualisation was that the results i got when testing this custom software was that on a virtual machine, i got the same "fingerprint" when using multiple virtual machines, obviously this does depends on the algorithm used to generate this fingerprint.

Obviously the vitual machines i used, all used the same xp disk with the same serial.

[ForumFriend]

The owner of this site has received a letter threatening High Court action if certain postings and threads are not removed from the forum.  We feel forum members, and visitors to the forum, are entitled to understand what has happened, and how it has, and will, affect the forum – at least, for the time being.

To quote from this letter:  “Much of the material on your forum could be considered defamatory and some recent posts could be considered likely to incite hatred or violence thereby giving rise to offenses under the Offences Against the Person Act 1861.”

The company needs to ask itself why it is that it is attracting such adverse criticism, rather than trying to use strong-arm tactics to stifle the expression of genuine frustration from people who have, to their cost, found themselves the unexpected victims of the MBS/Platte business model.  Our forum was founded as a result of, and has been supported by, such people. 

Any regular member of the forum will know that, in addition to the forum rules, we have always endeavoured to counter any postings which could be construed as threatening to any individual with a reminder that such statements are unlawful.  It is a principle of free speech that people should be allowed to express themselves, but, as a forum, we neither condone nor endorse any statement which could incite others to unlawful acts.

Whatever may happen to this forum, the criticisms of the Platte business model will continue to flourish just as long as there are unwitting victims of its software.  The fault lies with the business model, not with the victims.

The Platter lawyers’ letter goes on to take issue with the forum because it has

“either placed or allowed to be placed a script which encourages and enables customers of our client to uninstall the account authentication and billing software from their computers.  Your actions constitute an economic tort as the widespread dissemination of such scripts could clearly cause our client loss.”

But what about the losses being caused to the hapless consumer?


Let’s face it, guys, Platte (and MBS before them) have found an easy way to make a very tidy income for themselves.  All they have to do is to put some material on the internet, flash a few ads around, wait for the innocent punter to drift by and – BINGO!– regardless of whether that individual avails themselves of their material or not, they will be presented with a bill for £30 or so unless they have been lucky enough to realise their error within three days of their original (and possibly unwitting) encounter with Platte.  Assuming, of course, that Platte provide them with the wherewithal to remove the software - and we have had complaints on this forum that this has not always happened. And this does not even take account of the many people who are adamant that they have never visited a Platte site, or whose computers are affected by the Platte software due to the actions of a guest user. 

Believe me, nobody involved with the forum is particularly enjoying any of this.  As it happens, none of the administrators of this forum have been victims of MBS or Platte, but we have all had dealings with people who have been distressed, inconvenienced, or suffered major family problems as a result of those companies. 

So, I say this to Platte:

The only way in which you will prove to us, and others, that you are running your business in a way which puts the consumer at the forefront of your considerations will be when the complaints stop.  The only way in which this will happen is when your business model is such that it cannot allow for any accidental downloads of your software.
 
If it is the case that something untoward is happening of which you are unaware, by which your software is downloading onto people’s computers without their knowledge, then it is YOUR responsibility to get to the bottom of the matter and rectify it, rather than continue to cause distress and anger amongst consumers who consider themselves to be innocent of anything to do with your company.


And to other Platte/MBS victims, I will reiterate what I’ve said elsewhere on this Forum:

DON’T BE SILENT – MAKE A FORMAL COMPLAINT!

[GNPJRP]

If you want to remove Platte Media's intrusive software from your XP platform I recommend that you follow the istructions given on the following site:-
http://www.theeasypc.co.uk/wordpress/?p-46......It seems to have worked for me.

GNPJRP 07/07/2008

[Sponge]

We would warn users from using scripts and programs posted on forums or over the internet as some of these (in our recent experience) have shown to include nagware and other undesirable adware advertising functions

Thanks Platte. You're a real pc help. "Don't run files from the internet!"

Rotfl.